Hi Anonymous,

Like JP I cannot see how “groanings that cannot be uttered” can be translated into speaking in tongues.

In the Amplified Bible, from which Revivalist leaders often quote, Romans 8 : 26 reads as follows:-

“So too the (Holy) Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness, for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.”

I’ll also quote this verse from the Young’s Literal Translation.

” And, in like manner also the Spirit doth help our weaknesses; for what we may pray for as it behoveth [us] we have not known but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable.”

IMO groanings unutterable doesn’t equal speaking in tongues.

Revivalists have a penchant for turning everything they possibly can into evidence to support tongues, thereby making the tongues doctrine the crucial element in admittance to communion in their fellowship. They then become suitably different so as to be set apart from other churches.

Perhaps there’s an underlying insecurity there.

Also, comparing the KJV wording with the two versions I have used above reveals a glaring error in “the Spirit itself” as used in KJV. Almost all other versions refer to the person of the Holy Spirit “the Spirit Himself/himself” as respectfully should be the case.

EV

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Hi Anonymous,

IMO Romans 8:26 cannot be about praying or speaking in tongues, since it states that the Spirit’s groanings “cannot be uttered”. I.e this isn’t referring to any audible sounds which may or may not proceed out of the mouth of a believer in any uttered form.

JP

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one thing by the way, maybe you could comment on this one:

romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

This is about praying in tongues, imo praying in tongues IS an essential part of praying because your praying to the will of God through the Holy Spirit.

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They learn in the revival fellowship not to base your believe on the information of the scriptures but on experience. This is a dangerous thing to say.

1john4:1: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

In the fellowship they have a lot of strange rules and regulations which are in my opinion unscriptual. Personally i know some people who live in fear because they don’t want to be expelled from the group for various reasons.

1john4:18:”There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”

You can know them for their fruits and if you watch closely you will notice bad fruits (mat7:16), they have lack of love (1cor13) and condemn other Cristians as not being saved (mat7:1) (mat12:33 and more)

They don’t want to coöperate with other fellowships thus denying the body of Christ. (rom12)

They condemn the celebration of certain Christian holydays, like Christmas, eastern and so on (kol2:16)

They walk the “broad way” i think (mat7:13-23) by stating that the gospel is really “simple” and you need to believe based on experience rather than information (of the bible). mat7:22-23:”22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?, 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

When they expell members out of their fellowship they don’t follow the scriptures. There are certain rules to this which they don’t follow.

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jesus has done his work and was completed at calvary when he said it is done. he died and was buried, after 3days he rose to life and went to meet his decsiples. he was about to ascend to heaven when he said to his decsiples, i will send you a helper to come and give you strength so that you will carry out my work through out the whole world; you will be given the power to perfom miracles and wonders.. at this end times we need the holy spirit through the baptism to strenthen us and will help us to avoid doing sinful things.. holy spirit is the one that jesus has promised to give us. he said he will pour out the holy spirit in the last days and it is fulfilling……

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God bless you all. We all need to seek God on trebling knees and with fear. Take time each day to search the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is real and is at work during this end times. It is very dangerous to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Yield yourself to God completely and He will give you his wonderful life giving Spirit…the Holy Ghost! Take note: The things of the Spirit seem foolish to the learned of this world.

God bless!

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Fellowship to me amounts to a gathering of 2 or 3 sharing the word. I believe as humans we are prone to error and I believe also many scriptures of the Bible have been lost in translation.

So I try not to take the messages from the Bible as they are written. I try to get the wholesomeness of the message not the words as they are written. I try to gather the value they depict and the direction.

Speaking in tongues is the one aspect that has kept me away from many churches because in every church the tongues all sound the same.

I’m no expert of the Bible but my humble memory and understanding tells me that when it happened in Acts, these were tongues of different lands which other people could understand. I’d like to travel to Russia and meet someone who spoke in French though the had no understanding of French, and I’d be honored to translate cos I do speak French.

I believe like any other gift of the spirit it is not for everyone…and I do believe there have been, there are, or there will be people with such a gift…so I believe that I as a Christian can benefit from the impact or touch of the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues or needing to, just as I can without being a Prophet because it is a gift.

On Salvation, many verses specify different requirements, some more extended than others. In some references, believing Jesus is personal Lord and Saviour is enough, so the 2 minute prayer and confession is enough….to others, you need baptism of water and of spirt in addition to that….at the end of the day, it boils down to the emphasis of the Church leadership.

But the Bible clearly says that the responsibility is on us as individuals to pray and find the truth, not necessarily with what you hear…because of cause, many teachings are false either intentionally or unintentionally…

Anyway, may we all find peace whatever the path we choose.

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I dont normally take too much time replying to people who leave the Revival Fellowship in disgruntled state. I do want at this stage like to say that I can, from personal experience, completely agree with Nalau Bingeding’s piece, that was written a little earlier on this page. I personally experienced several healings and other miracles and know of many other healings and other miracles taking place all over the world.

In response to the previous text; God may perhaps not physically be seen, but so it is for the wind, yet, anyone can see it’s power when the wind does it’s thing. So also for God. Ten years ago was terribly skeptical about anything religious that I had encountered. That changed the day I received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. From a paranoid skeptic, addicted to drugs and depressed, I experienced an instant change. I instantly had a clear mind, for the first time since years. From day one to day two, the drug addiction of many years was gone as was my terribly foul mouth and temper. This change continued from then till present day; as written in the bible.

When seeing these things happening as written in the bible, who then can deny it?

And finally, to ‘accept Jesus’ really means to agree to whatever He tells you to do. That includes (John 3:5) “Truly, Truly, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.”.

His words concerning the salvation message are clear as a whistle, because He loves us. We got to do what He says, if we love Him.

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Before reciting the same routine scriptures, did you take the time to read the page you commented on? Turns out I’m quoting scripture too. Weird huh?

Here are two more: Matthew 12:38-40 and Mark 8:12-13. Here Jesus stipulates that no signs would be given except the Resurrection itself. Yet the Revival Fellowship insist otherwise.

Here’s another one: A time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 (NLT) Turns out people have always heard what they wanted to hear.

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I had been a Lutheran all my life. I prayed, gave my tithes and tried to live a holy life, but all was in vain. I did not see any fruits of going to a church, my prayers were not answered, I tried to be holy but I could not, and I did not see miracles, wonders and signs to prove to me that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob existed (I am a Gentile by birth).

However, due to personal problems I was invited by a friend to the Papua New Guinea Revival Centers one Sunday just to observe. However, I was baptised that same day and for the last few years I have been worshipping with the Revival Centers of Papua New Guinea. Today, I have seen miracles, wonders and signs and I truly believe that there is a God. I also believe that it is through the Holy Spirit only can we get our salvation and no other way as you proclaim. I have seen people with HIV Aids and other incurable diseases cured and I have seen alcoholics and drug addicts kick their bad habits and live good and honest lives in the Revival Fellowship.

As a result of miracles, wonders and signs in the Revival Fellowship in Papua New Guinea, 100s of people are being baptised in the Holy Spirit every week in Papua New Guinea. And the church has grown from 9 people 27 years ago to some 80 000 people today, and is the fastest growing church in Papua New Guinea.

If the Revival Fellowship’s Salvation steps have offended you, I am sorry. But that is what we believe in and will not change it. But one must remember that speaking against the Holy Spirit is an unforgiveable sin (Mark 3: 29; Mathew 12: 31 – 32). Also, you should read John 3: 3 – 5 to understand what Salvation really is – it says that one must be born again of the water and Holy Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God. Period.

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